Raid Discussions

So despite my lack of logging in lately, I've been studying T9 a great bit to see what we can do better. I finally found the answer - go in with only 5 people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhpvsXK2-kE

Jemy

Well obviously they beat it with just 5 people, they are playing the Latin version of FFXIV. The boss they are fighting is actually Jesus Taco Sanchez, whose special abilities are taking siestas and throwing red and yellow beans from the sky 

Aquilo

Well played sir. Except they're French - I recognize enough words to tell them apart. So instead, let's assume the boss in their version is French too, and as with all major conflicts she surrendered.

On a slightly more serious note, in this one and a few other videos I studied I saw a slightly different meteor placement method for Phase 2.5 which makes much more sense IMHO. Depending on the team we have when we run next, I might run thru how it works because it's close to how we're trying to do it and would work out better.

As far as this 5-man vid, I'm watching it closely because they are clearly doing several things well that we are not, such as doing great damage with BLMs and mitigating incoming damage to the tank. I'm trying to watch what the SCH is doing to figure out how they're able to solo heal effectively, and what they are depending on the rest of the team for in terms of overall damage mitigation.

Jemy

If you thought 5 was good watch this group do it with 4! Also watching them will also show how much one person can do, enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbYYx7_G3NM

NotKainc

Ha, I actually caught a glimpse of that shortly after I posted the 5-man. Extremely impressive considering no BRD for songs, and proves that NIN + BLM is plenty of DPS. Hell the NIN even dies and recovers and they were fine.

After studying these I've figured out a good way to adjust my healing style slightly - mostly in how I use and track my large cooldowns so they're on a more effective rotation and not being forgotten. Also I think I can further improve my pet control, which a few folks know I'm pretty serious about. SCH solo healers always inspire me to do better.

Even though the two videos are from a BLM and NIN point of view, I feel like most of our team could learn a little something by watching these and seeing how their counterparts are functioning. Running with 4-5 forces you to play the jobs to their absolute fullest ability, and I'm seeing good examples of here of what we can do better. The only person who might not be able to gain much from either of these vids is Jonas - I think that even a WHM can gain a bit of insight from watching how a SCH heals and moves, despite their differences.

Jemy

Example of planned meteor placement for Phase 2.5:  http://youtu.be/DvLjbocJXbA?t=4m41s

Jemy

Ok, watched the Ninja POV and we definitly need Blood for Blood (or whatever you call that DRG move)....

Alkemik

So something that came up among a few folks on the team last Tuesday is timing for big cooldowns to push out more damage. We agreed that there's two decent opportunities:

  1.) At the very start of the fight, a few seconds after pull to allow hate to settle in on the tank. There's a decent amount of time before the first meteor and Iron Chariot.

  2.) When the first set of golems pop, to burn down the first one at max speed.

The idea is that we'll use things such as:  Battle Voice + Foe's Requiem, Blood for Blood, Internal Release, Raging Strikes + Quelling Strikes, and so on right out of the gate. By the start of phase 2, these cooldowns should be coming back up so that they can be used for the first golem. If it actually turns out those skills are still cooling down when the phase change hits, then we may need to have 1-2 folks save theirs for the start of phase 2.

I also think I'm going to throw some damage down on the green golem. I'm finding that we don't take any major damage ourselves until the colors swap, so it's a good time to attack.


Anything we can discuss & do to optimize damage in these two moments will really help in getting us into phase 3 consistently. We're really due to be making serious phase 3 attempts at this point. If anyone else has found opportunities in phase 1 to take advantage of a particular buff/debuff/combo/cooldown, it would be nice to get a dialogue going.



Other thoughts:

Lunar Dynamo - No reason to be getting hit by this now, and it's causing unnecessary deaths. I call it out about 5 seconds in advance, which is plenty of time to finish a cast and pop Sprint or a movement skill (Repelling Shot / Aetherial Manipulation) to get to safety. I stand right in the middle of its radius until the meteor icon fades from me, and can get out in time.

"Forgetting" Skills/Food - We need to put a stop to this too. We're crippling ourselves by not coming in prepared and fully in-tune with our jobs, and too many times it's obvious that we're falling a bit short on DPS where we can (and have) clearly done better.

Pulling - We're pulling too fast. I'm seeing that the first 15 seconds of each attempt - which is key - is being wasted as not everyone has their cooldowns/buffs/food ready. Let's get back to ready checks, only clicking 'ready' when you know you have everything in order and you're set to attack, and focusing on "quality" over "quantity" of attempts moving forward.

Overall - Whatever quality of effort we put into these learning runs is what we're going to get back out of it. If 1-2 folks come in sloppy or unfocused, we can't move at full speed & efficiency as a team which means there's going to be breakdowns before we can push into a new phase. Every wasted attempt threatens to push our progress back another week. If at all possible, take a few minutes before raid time to get in the zone mentally and be set to bring your A game.

Jemy

To add some to what Jemy said, at this point in our runs, we should have phase 1 down and for the most part, phase 2. I keep seeing people making stupid mistakes over and over every week. We cannot hope to progress if we keep making the same stupid mistakes every week; something has to give. Please take your role seriously, when you don't care you only bring down everyone else. If for some reason you don't want to raid or need a break from it, that is fine, but please let someone know. I would really love to see people on 10 - 15 mins before raid time if possible getting ready to go.

Tomas

Phase 4 Notes:
Everyone needs to be stacked on tank.

Bahamuts Claw - Hits tank 5x in a row -- Heals needs to be on top and tank needs to spend a CD here.
Lunar Dynamo - Hits everywhere but melee this phase.

Debuffs:
Getting hit by anyone 2x will kill you.

Fire - Dispelled by ice
Ice - Dispelled by fire

The way I saw it handled was for every odd fireball, the player marked would run out.
For every even fireball, the player marked would stay in to remove the ice debuff.

There is a 3rd one, thunder.
This will target one person who needs to run out of the group ASAP. It will not harm the person targeted, but when it explodes, anyone it hits will take dmg and be paralyzed.

I think that is enough for now, there is of course a lot more besides this, but I think if we can focus on this and worry about the other if we get to it.

Tomas

Some Phase 3 notes:

- Know the Heavensfall rotation, we've seen it plenty now. First one comes right after the phase begins and targets only the selected region. The second one hits the targeted area, then switches targets and fires again. In addition, after the pushback it targets two players with the black hole. Stay on the outer edge to bait them away from the center. If we see the third HF, it's a wipe.

- Plan your DPS so that you can stay on the boss as much as possible during the phase. Melee stay near her when HF is happening (but get close enough to center to survive), and once HF lands get into safe territory and resume damage. Know that you'll need to move a bit for the second HF and plan your combos and cooldowns accordingly.

- Watch for Garrote Twist (purple chains debuff). If you have it, you must cleanse it with the white circles the add drops, or you're dead. Because our DPS is bordering the line of getting the third HF, we cannot afford any deaths in this phase. I will try to call it, as I'm getting used to the timing for when these debuffs go out.

- Focus. I get the feeling that with the (good) DPS we're pulling in Phase 1, we're falling into some bad habits when phase 3 hits and the overall output goes down significantly. It's easy to get out of rhythm with DPS rotations when movement patterns change and you're not prepared to "do the dance" for a particular phase, and I think we're still not at a point where we have the dance totally down. I want us to be fully comfortable with Phase 3 after tonight's run.

Here is "the dance" for Phase 3:

- Nael jumps to MT to start the phase
- Melee DPS close in on boss before HF
- Heavensfall (HF) lands
- Ground is targeted, get to safety and resume DPS on boss
- Add appears, MT reels it in and all DPS burn the add
- Garotte Twist is on 1 person at this time
- Add dies, get out of AoE and resume damage on boss ASAP
- Person with Twist eats a white circle to cleanse Garotte
- A second person gets hit with Twist around this time - if possible cleanse it before HF2
- HF2 lands; pushback
- Ground is targeted. Get to safety but stay on the outer part of the arena until black holes appear
- GTFO of black holes
- Ground explodes, and is retargeted in different spots. Get to safety and resume DPS on boss
- Add appears, MT reels it in. BLM/SMN LB and all DPS burn the add
- Get Nael to phase change (around 46-47%) ASAP
- HF3 = wipe

Jemy

I'll just note that I thought we had decided to burn both adds and melee LB Nael when 2nd add dies.

Tomas

HF3 is dodgeable. just sayin'.

wintersquall

I want to throw this out there and get some feedback from those who are playing DPS jobs in the raid.

In phases 1 and 2, our damage output is pretty predictable and pretty good. We're getting 4 meteors, and the green golem dies fast enough that it doesn't transfer to the other two (excepting rare cases). In phase 3 however, we're coming up short. Regardless of if we can/do dodge HF3, the internet suggests that we should be able to push into phase 4 before that happens.

Also, for phases 1 and 2 I had laid out a plan (which I assume is still being followed) for our DPS cooldowns to pass some checks. In phase 1 we go with the big damage right after aggro is locked following the pull, and in phase 2 we pop a few on the first green golem to beat the color change and the timer for meteor drops. No plan was made for phase 3.

Do any of you feel that maybe we're hitting trouble because we haven't coordinated when to pop the big guns (cooldowns... not counting Limit Break) and crank out max damage? I'm only a healer, but in my mind this could explain part of why we're not getting consistent results in this phase. If you don't know what I mean about not being consistent, you weren't paying attention on Tuesday.

Can someone please share their thoughts here? If we should build out a plan, let's do it ASAP and be ready for Friday.

Example Plan: HF1 seems to be easy to dodge (no one is dying to it) and there's a nice pocket of time between escaping it and when the first add pops. Maybe we pop all big cooldowns right after stepping out of HF1 and drive Neal down as far as we can before the add comes in?

Jemy

with how the timing works out in my case (BLM, Raging Strikes) if i pop it on the pull it will not be available until just after the first set of golems, so i've been saving it since we're not having problems in p1. will have to see friday when it comes available again in p3. also, foe's makes a noticeable difference in my damage but since i'm the only caster we have... /shrug. we may need the bard to save mp for ballad or something.

wintersquall